Raise Your Hand Before You Feel Ready: From the Clinic to the Startup to the Classroom | Dipu Patel, DMSc, MPAS, ABAIM, PA-C
- Apr 21
- 39 min read
In this episode, Helen sits down with Dipu Patel, DMSc, MPAS, ABAIM, PA-C, educator, innovation leader, and immediate past president of the PA Education Association. Dipu serves as professor and vice chair for innovation at the University of Pittsburgh PA program, where her work focuses on digital health, artificial intelligence, quality improvement, and preparing clinicians for the future of care.
Before stepping into academic leadership, Dipu spent 20 years in clinical practice and later served as director of clinical pathways at a healthcare technology startup. She breaks down what it takes for clinicians to move from delivering care inside systems to influencing the systems and technologies that define care delivery. Dipu explains why systems thinking matters more than clinical thinking when translating workflows for engineers, why trust is part of implementation, and why ROI in healthcare cannot only be financial.
The conversation explores why PA programs must embed leadership training into curricula, why clinicians need AI literacy now, and why raising your hand for roles outside your comfort zone pays dividends years later.
For clinicians navigating innovation, education, or startup work, this episode delivers clarity on building the future of healthcare.
Must-Hear Insights and Key Moments
Dipu was the first PA hired in hematology oncology and the youngest leader in Atrius Health's Toyota Lean program
Systems thinking became her translation layer between clinical workflows and engineering teams at a healthcare startup
Healthcare tech companies without clinicians at the table are just tech companies, not healthcare companies
AI tools that work are the ones clinicians actually use and benefit from in their workflow
ROI in healthcare must measure clinician satisfaction, cognitive load, documentation time, and retention costs
Volunteering for tasks outside your wheelhouse builds skills that pay dividends decades later
PA programs must embed leadership training and teach the future of the profession, not just its history
Clinicians joining startups must ask if they would use or recommend the product themselves
Trust is part of AI implementation, and clinicians must have time to adjust to new tools
Dipu created the first digital health and AI elective for PA students at University of Pittsburgh
Words of Wisdom: Standout Quotes from This Episode
"If you are designing a health solution as an engineer or someone in tech and you do not have a clinician as an advisor, at the table, as a founder, or as a board member, you are just a tech company. You have to have the clinical perspective to be a healthcare tech company." - Dipu Patel
"The AI that works is the one that someone uses and benefits from. If you have the best AI workflow tool and the clinician says I am not clicking these 15 extra buttons to use this, then it is not going to work." - Dipu Patel
"We really need to start looking at ROI differently in healthcare. It cannot just be about the financial bottom line or RVUs. Are we looking at clinician fatigue, documentation time, clinician work balance and happiness?" - Dipu Patel
"When someone said in a meeting who wants to do this or who wants to lead this, I was the one who raised my hand. Even something as simple as volunteering to do the schedule, those skills have paid off dividends years later." - Dipu Patel
"You came solutions focused, solution based. You were not in their minds a barrier. You did not say that will not work and stop there. You said but this is the way we can do it and this is how it would work." - Helen Tanner
"Sometimes depending on the stage of company, you are asked to help build your own metrics. I had to come to the table with my own annual review metrics that aligned with the bigger picture, even negotiate what bonuses may look like." - Helen Tanner
"I cannot recommend enough to whatever stage people are in, to at least raise your hand sometimes. Volunteer, even if you feel like you cannot give yourself fully, because then it almost starts that flywheel." - Helen Tanner
"Physicians, NPs, PAs, PTs, pharmacists, everybody is battling history versus future and how to educate the new generation early, because people are leaving clinical professions due to burnout and it is not sustainable." - Helen Tanner
Mentioned in the episode:
About Dr. Dipu
Dipu Patel, DMSc, MPAS, ABAIM, PA-C is a clinician, professor, author, and national speaker working at the intersection of digital health, artificial intelligence, and medical education. She focuses on helping academic institutions, healthcare organizations, and professional associations move from reactive technology adoption to intentional system design that supports clinical reasoning, professionalism, and patient-centered care.
With a career spanning clinical practice, academic leadership, innovation strategy, and board governance, Dipu collaborates with institutions to translate emerging technologies into practical, ethical, and sustainable educational and clinical practices. Her work centers on AI in health professions education, digital health strategy, simulation, and systems thinking—ensuring healthcare innovation remains grounded in human-centered care.
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Blog Transcript:
Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies
Helen Tanner: One of the most interesting shifts in healthcare right now is that clinicians are no longer just adapting the new technology, but they're being asked to help design it. That requires a different skillset, a different language, and often a different identity, and I'm very excited to introduce today's guest who has lived that evolution.
Dipu Patel is a pa. Educator innovation leader and immediate past president of PAEA, the PA Education Association. She serves as professor and vice chair for innovation at the University of Pittsburgh PA program where her work focuses on digital health. Artificial intelligence, quality improvement, and preparing clinicians for the future of care before stepping into academic leadership.
She spent 20 years in clinical practice and later moved into startup leadership for a healthcare technology company, today we're talking about what it takes for a clinician to move from delivering care in a system to influencing the systems and technologies that define its future. Thanks so much for sharing your time today, dpu.
We're so excited to have you.
Dipu Patel: Thank you so much for having me, Helen. It is a honor to be here.
Helen Tanner: Yes. So tell me, when did you first realize that your career might extend beyond traditional roles? Traditional clinical roles?
Healthcare Tech Needs Clinicians at the Table
Dipu Patel: I still don't think I've realized that, to be honest. you know, it's funny 'cause I do, agree.
You're not the first to kind of say, Hey, how did you get into this? Or how did it shift for you? And I think in many ways it's a ongoing shift, right? I don't think that this current role or title or whatever work I'm doing now is the final role or flourish to my career. I think that's the beauty of being a pa.
I, when I think back. on my clinical career and when I was a PA seeing patients in the clinic, one of the best parts of being a pa, which is still true, is that we can pivot from specialty to specialty, which a lot of professions don't have that, as a privilege. but we do, I didn't realize that would also mean.
A pivot into academia and leadership and innovation and really thinking at a broader scale. And I think a lot has changed in our profession since when I first became a PA over 20 years ago. And I think that things are changing for the better. And part of that has to do with not only, the technological evolutions, which I'm, you know, very passionate about and try to bring to my work, but also policy and regulatory advocacy efforts that have happened at multiple levels and multiple scales at a systems level.
and so a lot of the work that I have been lucky enough to participate in and sometimes lead. Have been informed by those roles that I've had the opportunity to be in. So some of it has been luck where I've ended up in these roles, and some of it has been really intentional and I can't. I can't thank the people enough who have really tapped me on the shoulder and said, Hey, I think you can do this.
or what are your thoughts on this? I'd love to have your, viewpoint. and I think it's really, really nice to see PAs, expanding into spaces that historically and traditionally have not been reserved for them.
Helen Tanner: what do you think led to. You being tapped on their shoulder and, you know, people driving and being interested in what you're doing and wanting your opinion?
Dipu Patel: Yeah, I think it's a few things. one, I've always been a very curious, person, naturally outside of clinical practice. And, because of that curiosity, I've had a diversity of experiences fairly young in my career. I was, the clinical leader for, back then they called it telecom, which was their virtual services at aids, health, telecom, student health Services, and urgent care, where I was overseeing a lot of the day-to-day operations for those, three departments.
I was also one of the youngest leaders to be tapped on the shoulder for the Toyota Lean program that Atrias had. Many moons ago. And so the ability to be in those spaces early on in my career really framed how I thought about clinical care, not just. Face-to-face with a singular patient, which is of course something to really the bread and butter in the crux of the work that we do, but also at a systems level.
And so as I explored those spaces more, learned more, read more, as you can see, there's, I have all these books that I read that are not clinical in nature for the most part. have allowed me to really expand my viewpoint. So some of it is, yeah, we know you're curious about this and why don't you try it out even though we've never had.
A PA do this before. And I've had those experiences both clinically as well as in leadership roles. the example I just gave with the Toyota Lean, there was never a PA who had done that. I was the first one in natures to be tapped to be do that. I was also the youngest to participate. it was a room full of VPs and CEOs and, you know, director level folks.
And I was the only PA in the room to participate in that leadership. Leadership initiative when I was tapped on the shoulder to work in hematology oncology as a clinical pa, I was the first PA to be hired in that department. I think part of it is that my work spoke for itself, but also my curiosity and excitement to do things that were outside of the normal roles of what PAs have historically done.
Building Leadership Skills That Were Never Taught
Helen Tanner: I saw a post on one of the Facebook. PA or clinician sites the other day of Yeah. A PA who was in a very successful and had a really great role within a dermatology practice. Mm-hmm. And So she, so there was a, experienced PA who'd been with a derm practice for a while. for whatever reason, I don't know if her main physician was retiring or whatever, but that was closing. So one of the most surgeons that they referred to asked if she would be willing to come and set up practice with him.
and I mean, all of her patients wanted to go with her. And she had a post saying, you know, I thought it was a great. you know, deal. I went over there, nothing is set up. The EHR is not set up for how I practice the, you know, the MAs, don't know the workflows, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
And she felt really overwhelmed and she said, this isn't for me. I'm gonna leave. I was. Really impressed by all the responses by so many clinicians. Like you have an opportunity. He's letting you basically rebuild that practice in a way that's gonna make you successful and certainly him successful.
'cause you brought over hundreds of patients and so there was such, a response of get in, figure out how to lead, how to build, if you have the energy and the desire, you could create. This as you wanted, even better than you had it before and you have a buy-in and potentially could negotiate in some nice things with that.
And, I thought that was a really good picture of just reframing this opportunity. You know, I think yes, you felt like it was just, a transfer ever. She realized it was a little bit much bigger than she thought, but this could completely alter and change her career in a different path. For the future.
That is something she never thought about before. And I think a lot of us are presented or some of us get these opportunities and some of us decide to take 'em like you did and grow with it or like I did and then some, you know, for many reasons may decide it's not the right but if thing to do then. But if you can think big picture and you can gain a little bit of that energy and ask the right questions and read the books.
Then you can alter your path.
Dipu Patel: Absolutely. I think, had a very similar response to what the comments were in terms of encouraging this person to do, if that's what they wanted. Right. I think that's the Yes. Part of it. I think to me, when you first started giving this example, what I was thinking was, you know what, these are skills that we're not taught in our ED education.
And I think more and more these skills are becoming these untapped unknown skills. Are becoming more and more important all the other industries are shifting, right? Scope of practice is shifting, regulations are shifting, technology is shifting, moving forward. We cannot be practicing under the same sort of scope of practice and guidelines that we were practicing 50 years ago when the profession first became.
Therefore the education has to shift. Right? We should not I'm not saying that like we shouldn't teach what we teach. I think of course we're very successful as a profession, if our standards, education, standard accreditation standards, all of these things don't, and regulatory standards don't move with the profession, with other industries and what the expectations of our consumers, which are our patients and our hospital organizations are expecting us to do.
We are doing ourselves a disservice, as a profession. More and more PAs are stepping into leadership roles without any leadership experience, training or understanding and know-how. Which is probably why this dermatology PA was like, oh my God, one, she may not wanna do it. Two doesn't have the skills to do it, but hasn't even thought about it.
And I think to me. In this day and age, if PA programs aren't teaching some sort of leadership skills, it's you're doing a disservice to the next generation of patients. 'cause to me it's also at a systems level. It's a patient safety issue.
Helen Tanner: Yes. Oh, this is, I'm very passionate about this.
This is the the main reason of why I created this podcast and, this community. Because I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I think that's one of the reasons that we clicked so well why I resonated so much with you when you came to speak at the executive leadership conference last year.
So, did you feel like when you transitioned. Let's talk about your transition into startup.
Transitioning to Startup - Learning Systems Thinking on the Fly
Dipu Patel: Sure.
Helen Tanner: How did you gain those skills? Did you have any of kind of the business fluency or any of those skills prior to joining and jumping into startup, or did you gain that along the way?
Dipu Patel: it's a little bit of both.
I don't have any formal business training, but I grew up in a very business oriented family and so, it's not. Technology business. So I have some understanding, at least basic understanding, but a lot of it was learning on the fly and really saying for the first, you know, however many months it was saying, I don't know how this works, can you explain it to me?
Or staying up and reading about it and doing the research and understanding. But also at the same time, learning how other teams worked. so my role was director of clinical pathways at this particular startup. And so I was bringing the clinical lens to this particular startup. And what was really, really nice and refreshing was that I had ownership over, a large part of the clinical development piece of it, right?
Like they went, I was their go-to, which is It's odd for a lot of PAs because we see ourselves as a team and it's not that I wasn't part of a team, but I was the go-to.
Helen Tanner: Yeah,
Dipu Patel: right. In a very small team. What really helped me was saying, okay, I'm gonna own this part and I need to explain to the engineer how this works from a clinical level.
Like why this workflow engineer person, is not gonna work. In a clinical workflow like this doctor, this pa, this clinician isn't going to use this. And so I was the person who brought, like, this is how we would do it in a normal workflow, in a normal, or a typical, I should say, normal in a typical workflow for X, Y, Z, and then learning how engineers think and talk and meeting them where they are.
So they have their systems, we have our systems. And by the way, I'll just say that there is a lot of overlap between those systems. We just have very different terminologies for what we use. And I think at the end of the day, it's all systems thinking and that was the moment when it was, I really understood that it was not about making the diagnosis or making sure that a patient followed that pathway clinically.
It was more around designing the right conditions under which a clinician and a patient would be satisfied that would lead to the outcome that we wanted. Through the solution we were proposing. Well, and that was a big aha, right? Like learning how to talk to these teams who are not in our industry.
And then they had to do the same with me.
Helen Tanner: Yep. and this is key, is you came solutions focused, solution based. You didn't say you weren't. In their minds a barrier. No, that won't work. we can't do it that way. Yeah. you didn't stop there, you said, but this is the way we can do it and this is how it would work.
And I think sometimes, and I have done this For sure, especially early on accidentally been the barrier. Yes. Because. I didn't frame it right. I mean, there's a way to frame that won't work or I'm concerned in a way that is more of a yes, say that, but yes. And, and then here's the solution and then that's how people will start to work with you more.
And I think that is a shift and, and that's not even necessarily like clinician and the leadership, but across, across all industries. If if you can figure out a way to be the yes and person. Not necessarily the yes person, but you're presenting it in a way that, let's look at all the options here and here are some of my recommendations of how we could make this work.
Versus like, oh, I'm really concerned. That's not gonna work for us. You know?
Dipu Patel: Yeah. I think you are absolutely right. Being that yes and person is really crucial, and then being able to. Speak it and explain it in their terms, in their language. Even though I mean, I don't speak tech funnily enough.
Helen Tanner: Yes.
Dipu Patel: But, but I do speak systems thinking and systems design and I think really partnering at that level with teams and engineering was one component.
Obviously we had a bunch of other teams as well. Content and writing and whatnot, and, really making sure that. This is the goal and how are we getting to the goal?
There are five ways to go to get there. What is gonna be the way that sticks for the patient? What is the way that's gonna stick for the clinician Who's going to adapt this workflow? And those could be two different things. So, you know, it's more about looking at it as, as a architect, rather than here's the right way of doing it.
And which by the way. I think this is getting better as I'm looking at the landscape more and more, which is why a lot of tech companies did not hire clinicians from the beginning. one of the things I've said to folks is that if you were designing a health solution as a engineer or as someone in tech or someone in another industry who you are not in healthcare, you're creating a tech company.
If you don't have a clinician as an advisor at the table as a founder, or as a board member. You're just a tech company. You have to have the clinical perspective in order for you to be a healthcare tech
Helen Tanner: Yes.
Dipu Patel: Company. and that's why I'm very deliberate about saying, I worked at a healthcare tech company because, or a startup because we did have clinicians.
I was one of many, and we had clinicians, we had a pt, we had a nutritionist, we had a nurse. We had all sorts of perspectives, at the table. And it really made the product better.
Helen Tanner: That's great. You don't always hear that or have that. And for me, I was the only clinician, the first clinician and the only clinician, and so that was incredibly challenging and I think some of.
People listening to this are also in really early roles too, whether they're the first or second, or perhaps joining an early team where there maybe are other clinicians, but maybe they're representing clinical industry. And so, clinical care industry, I should say with patient practice.
And so, I'm curious. When a clinician is considering an early hire role You know, coming into a new space like you did, what environment should they evaluate? what should they be looking at before they say yes? you have any thoughts there?
Dipu Patel: Yeah, I do and I will say that one of the questions that you wanna ask.
Yourself is, is this a product that you would use?
Helen Tanner: Mm-hmm.
Dipu Patel: in its glory, right? Like, let's say it's developed, it's amazing. But is this a product that you would use or recommend to your, to your,
Helen Tanner: yeah. Can you sell it? Can you quote sell it?
Dipu Patel: Yeah, exactly. And so you have to believe in the product, in order.
And by the way, the vision of the product is not always what it ends up. Being developed into, right? Absolutely. 'cause there's you are a startup, you are going to have to make a lot of pivots in that development process because of X, Y, Z, whether it be regulatory governance patients, stickiness factor patients are not, are not adopting it.
of things that have, but you have to ultimately believe that the outcome that you're aiming for or the goal is something that you believe in. The other thing you have to be comfortable with is the way you're going to be assessed and reviewed in a startup is very different than in clinical practice.
Your annual review is not really an annual review. You are gonna get like a quarterly review. Most of the time you're running three to five sprints per quarter or even per month, depending on how organization is set up. And you're being, you know, you're gonna be responsible for KPIs and deliverables on a rolling basis.
And knowing that Qi and startups do qi pretty well actually. They do it very quickly. They do it in very short sprints and they're able to pivot because they're very agile, in that way because they're such a small system and they haven't had a lot of, experience outside. Right? When you look at a hospital organization, pivoting an organization takes forever, but a startup because it's small.
You're not as quiet at scale. it's a little bit easier to kinda pivot to what, the customer or the consumer would want. The other thing is, are you going to be able to be the translator in charge to my earlier point, right? You're the clinic. If you're bringing the clinical lens, even if it's just you by yourself or part of a team, are you going to be able to translate that to the rest of the other nonclinical teams?
Or other clinical teams. 'cause there's, well, we all know even in clinical teams, there's a lot of push and pull that, that occurs. And are you going to feel good about putting that product out with credibility and scope and liability and governance and all safety, all of those things that are going to go out?
I will say hearing no most often is you have to kind of be comfortable with that. I call it failing forward, basically. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. Because you've done this sprint, you've worked on it, and it didn't go well in the pilot or the engineers couldn't make it happen because of this thing.
And then you have to rethink of how can I make this happen because this is really important on this piece of it to get the outcome that I want. So that constant tinkering and balancing ultimate outcome with. Measures and what is technologically feasible and doable, which I know everyone thinks technology is the wonderful thing.
Not everything requires technology and not every solution that proposed by technology is a good solution. So there's that push and pull that that happens. So I think you really have to think differently. and I don't know how else to put it other than systems, kind of systems thinking, which is really where I ended up leveraging a lot of the systems I didn't call it that obviously when I first started doing it, but as I reflect back on it, that's really what it was.
Helen Tanner: Yeah, and I think just being honest, working with the deep systems thinkers who were trained like, As you know, my training was clinically, I've never done this. this is what I am trying to say in my words. How do you read this?
Dipu Patel: How do you say it? Yeah,
Helen Tanner: yeah. Or how do you say it?
Help me learn. And I think a lot of people will respect that and, understand that you're trying to work together and find common language for the common goal that you set of the company. And I will say one other thing. you know, when it comes to metrics and measures and reviews, sometimes depending on the stage of company, you are asked to help build that.
Well,
Dipu Patel: I was gonna say multiple hats all the time. Yeah.
Helen Tanner: And so, I know for me there was, you know, one or two main goals when I started, but for annual reviews and whatnot, I essentially had to come to the table with my own annual review kind of metrics of, yep. That were aligning with the bigger picture, but I kind of had to set my own and even negotiate what those bonuses may look like.
Yeah. Even learn about how to negotiate that type of bonus and
Dipu Patel: which we are not taught.
Trust, Workflow, and Redefining ROI
Helen Tanner: Yeah, in certain roles, it, you know, RBU's don't matter if you're mainly admin. and that stuff, you know, comes with. With community finding, like people reading and just trying and knowing that you have that, like you said, ability to pivot and that constant communication with this is working.
This is not, oops. That didn't quite work out. Fail forward, like you said. so you have been early in AI integration and from a clinician's perspective, What is the difference between ai? That sounds impressive. An AI that actually works in workflow. Can you speak to that?
Dipu Patel: I'll just put out there that I have not actually integrated in a clinical system. So obviously my current role as, vice chair for innovation is very academic. But I am advising several startups who I can't name at this point, but. part of that, it's their job to kind of integrate.
So I do advise a lot on the implementation and I think what works is, an AI one, you have to trust it. The clinician who's using it has to trust it, and you obviously, patient safety is at the core. So all of those things that we normally look for in any other tool. I like to use CAT scans or MRIs because those have become so ubiquitous in our practice.
you wouldn't put a patient in a CAT scan if it wasn't safe or in an MRI if it wasn't safe. Right. But I also akin to the level of radiation exposures which have gotten better unless as CAT scan technology has improved. Right. And so this is the same thing. We are very early on in the ai, Learning curve and implementation curve, but the AI that works is the one that someone uses and benefits from it. If you have the best AI workflow tool and whatever, and then the clinician says, yeah, I'm not clicking these 15 extra buttons to use this or logging into three different systems to use it, then it's not, gonna work.
You also want to make sure that two things happen at the same time. The patient has to benefit from it somehow. and I think what happens is we look at patient benefit and safety, which of course is paramount in healthcare and clinical practice. But in order to get there, one of the factors, the variables is clinician.
a cognitive load ownership ability to get to that encounter, to that patient. Be present, be visible, be mindful, like all the things that we're taught when we're in school. make eye contact, sit at their level, like don't talk down to them. All those things, which you and I both know from years and years of practice.
What are you trying to do is get in and out because you want the history and just tell me what I need, ask the questions that so I can diagnose you and then go get the RVU on the other end.
Helen Tanner: Yeah,
Dipu Patel: a lot of the AI tools that we're looking at, and I'll use ambient scribing as an example because I think that's the one that everyone has really.
not everyone, but a lot of people are adapting first. Yes, it's great. Ambi. Inscribing is great. It really is allowing clinicians to have those face-to-face conversations. You're not staring at a computer screen typing while you're talking to the patient. but it is not without it's faults, right?
sometimes it can hear things wrong. You know, no chest pain versus chest pain. Big difference, right? Those kinds of things. but the cognitive load in that connection for the patient. for me, an ROI like, that's an ROI, but that's not a measured ROI. Right. It's not an ROI we currently measure.
And so one of the things I've said in, you know, in other conversations and interviews I've had is we really need to start looking at ROI differently in healthcare. Mm-hmm. It can't just be about the financial bottom line. It can't just be about a number of RVs. any clinician kind of, turns out or takes, but are we looking at what clinician fatigue looks like?
What does documentation time look like? What does clinician work balance and happiness look there are no scales to my knowledge, that measure clinician happiness. Right in
Helen Tanner: their drop patient satisfaction. Yes,
Dipu Patel: there is patient satisfaction. There is no clinician satisfaction. I mean, you know, we get the opposite, right?
The Press Ganey, which again is patient satisfaction, right? It's not about clinician satisfaction,
Helen Tanner: right?
Dipu Patel: And so we really need to look at what does it cost to keep a clinician happy? And, and I'm not saying that like everything is kumbaya, but
Helen Tanner: Sure. They think employee satisfaction.
Dipu Patel: Yeah. But I read a statistic that on average, I apologize, there's ambulances going back.
I read a statistic that on average A clinician onboarding offboarding to take, onboard a clinician, depending on the role that you're hiring them from, it can take anywhere from 30 to $150,000.
Helen Tanner: I wonder if I read that same white paper. Yeah.
Dipu Patel: To onboard them.
Helen Tanner: Mm-hmm.
Dipu Patel: Now think about like, why would you want to lose that clinician for, let's even take the bottom end of that number, $30,000.
Why would you wanna lose that clinician within a year or two years of the hire? You haven't even reaped the benefits of that clinician.
Helen Tanner: Mm-hmm. Yet.
Dipu Patel: Right? So really, we need to start looking at different metrics and different details when we're implementing an AI tool, any tool.
I mean, AI is just the thing that we're talking about. Any tool you wanna make sure that it's. fits into the workflow of the clinician and it's gonna get something beneficial for the clinician, and then the clinician has time to adjust to that. I remember when, I was in, I think I was in, um, urgent care and then oncology.
This was when I was practicing clinically. Um, they, it had introduced dragon.
Helen Tanner: Oh yeah.
Dipu Patel: Mm-hmm. Just one of the very early, it was basically a transcript, like it was, you know, dictating a lot of clinicians didn't wanna do it. I volunteered do it. Was it perfect? No, but it took a little bit of time for it to understand my accent and the tone and my ums and the periods and all this kind of stuff.
but once you got it, you got it. And it really saved a lot of time for me. as I was seeing patients, and you can't just say, here it is, use it, and then measure, the quote, benefits of the time, the same day or the week or in a month. It's gonna take time for these things to ramp up.
The flip side of it is also you have to be able to trust it. Vendors will say anything and everything to sell what they need to sell, right? But you have to have the ability to really use it, vet it, make sure that it's really meeting the goals of the organization or the department in which you that you're going to, use it.
So really looking at workflow, what steps should you insert this particular tool into? What is the current baseline and what are we aiming for? Right? These are all very basic, like aim statements and qi kind of mm-hmm. kind of questions, but that's really what, you need to look at. What would you be measuring?
Is it alert fatigue? Is it time for documentation, accurate documentation? is it, overtime pay? For the clinicians is What are we measuring? Patient satisfaction, clinician satisfaction, all of those things. And then how are these models being monitored? Lemme see.
Building the Future of Healthcare Education
Helen Tanner: tell me a little bit about your startup experience and how.
You got to where you are today, being in academia, was that kind of a linear step from there? Or how did you end up
Dipu Patel: No, it was actually my startup experience was a break in academia, so, oh, I, I went from clinical practice to academia for about four or five years, and then I got recruited to the Techstar, but I had kept my fingers in academia kind of adjuncting and doing lectures here and there.
and then when the tech startup kind of got bought out and went through what I call the five stages of grief of a startup, right? So you, it's like, yay, we got bought out. And then you end up like, oh, crap, I'm gonna get laid off. Which is what happened, to me. and then I was recruited to this current role that I have.
So it was actually the startup was the break in academia for me, for me.
Helen Tanner: Gotcha. and then you went back to academia, and then was your role in academia changed or altered at all by that startup experience?
Dipu Patel: no. I was hired as vice chair for innovation at hit. Yeah. Yeah. It, it wasn't like I got promoted into it, or they shifted it, that it was what I was hired for.
Helen Tanner: It. so, okay.
Dipu Patel: Yeah.
Raising Your Hand and Building Your Personal Brand
Helen Tanner: And then You've kind of built a personal brand through your work and innovation. It's
Dipu Patel: so funny to say that, hear you say that, but yeah.
Helen Tanner: Well you kind of have, you have, right, you podcast it, you have a book, you do public speaking, which you very engaging public speaker.
you know, you advise. I guess, can you speak to how, and you have a little bit already, but How you got to that place and you know, how did you decide to start using your voice in a public way for this, I guess your personal brain, but also what you're passionate about and teaching PA students and other clinicians.
Dipu Patel: I don't know if I decided. I think I just did it I think what. I'm trying to have, I'm trying to craft this in my head because it's coming out, mumble, mumbled in my, I didn't realize I was an educator at heart, even though everyone says PAs are educators of their heart, but like being an educator is really something that I've really, really embraced and I enjoy doing it a lot.
And I think, I guess part of The podcast and all these other things that I do are part of that education lens. I want people to be informed and understand how this new tool works. one of the things I say to folks is, 'cause like the vice Chair for Innovation is, a unique title in the pa the pa academic world.
Yes. and they're like, what do you do? what does that entail? And I get that all the time. And, I'm like, well, right now it entails. things that I'm talking about now on my LinkedIn pages and all my writings and whatnot. Tomorrow it could be something else. And that's the virtue of, that's how innovation works.
It's like my job is to keep an eye on what's coming five years down the pike and in the meantime, try to educate folks for the current and what can we do to prepare our students and our faculty now? So that the graduates are ready for whatever is going to happen in clinical practice.
Right? So really looking at that pipeline, a PA student entering, or any a medical student, anybody, any healthcare professional entering school today, whether they graduate two years from now, five years from now, or 12 years from now. AI is gonna be part of their work and their job, whether they like it, realize it or not.
It's going to be part of it. And so I think it's, it behooves us as educators, as programs to really make sure the students are prepared for what is going to, you need a workforce ready graduate, especially since you and I both know there are things that we weren't prepared for in our education. We learned it on sometimes on the fly.
I spend it all the time reading and learning myself, as I'm sure you did when? Mm-hmm. When you were working at the startup. We need to prepare these students for maybe they don't need to know everything, but at least be able to ask the right questions. Kind of like what you were asking me earlier, which is, what did you say?
It was like, I asked a lot of questions,
Helen Tanner: right? Mm-hmm.
Dipu Patel: And so what questions would you be asking? You don't know. And that dermatology pa experience, it's like she didn't even know what to start. Like she thought everything would be ready, but it's like if she had asked, I think she would've been better prepared,
Helen Tanner: right?
Do you at your current program now, are you building these, some courses in or some learnings into the education now? Yes. Has that been received Well,
Dipu Patel: yeah. So the first thing that I built was, so I teach in the DMSE program at Pitt and I built the digital health, elective, which has AI in it.
And, we're the first and To my understanding, the only prog DMSE program that offers that as an elective. Wow. Mm-hmm.
Helen Tanner: So,
Dipu Patel: in that particular course, I encourage students to use AI tools to write and build and, and like their assignments are like incorporated with the use of AI because mm-hmm.
I want them to, the only way you're gonna know whether something is good or bad is by using it. Yeah. I can stand up here and tell you like. Here are the pros and cons of this large language model, but until you use it for what you need it for, you're not gonna understand.
Helen Tanner: That's true.
Dipu Patel: Yeah. And, you know, and so far I think the course has been pretty well received.
it's in its second year, so sixth cohort at this point. and there's more things that I'm building, within the, MS program. So the PA programs at Pitt, as well as our continuing education. programs. So there's more building that's happening on the backend. and those will come out as I continue to build It's me. It's an n of DP at this point.
Helen Tanner: Yeah.
Dipu Patel: So it takes a little time to kind of build those things.
Helen Tanner: Absolutely. Well, and you've had such a interesting trajectory of, I mean, because this is the first role. I mean, you're mentioning not only this is the first program of its kind and this. Setting for this degree, but, and potentially others.
and then there was no director of innovation before you, correct?
Dipu Patel: Correct.
Helen Tanner: So that brand new role, you're building that role in making that a value add of a role to an education program and the school, clearly you were able to. Present and almost picture yourself perhaps for that role in a way that they thought DPU can do this.
And and then, you know, before you were kind of the first in this startup, in the clinician sense Yeah. For your role. So you have this trend of being a builder, right. And not in rolling up your sleeves and going in and being able to ask the right questions. And I think that's really impressive. And As I talk to more people in this, there certainly are people that have your same personality and do that, and then there are others where it's shift of their time, you know, time of their life, right? Like maybe earlier they, they weren't able to kind think that, but then things happened and they're like, okay, my questions are coming.
You know, things are changing. This has to be done differently. the more expertise and the more time I'm doing this, I just cannot recommend enough to whatever stage people are in, to at least raise your hand sometimes at least.
Dipu Patel: Absolutely.
Helen Tanner: Volunteer.
Sometimes even if you can't, it just, if you know at one point in your career that you probably wanna do something different or you have a little bit of an itch. Try to start putting yourself out there, even if you feel like you can't give yourself fully in these ways, because then it almost starts that flywheel.
Dipu Patel: Absolutely. and I'll just back up a, a step and say, one of the things that's really nice is at, at Pitt is that in order for me to be hired as the first in this role, that requires the vision of leadership, right? They have to be able to say, yes, we can see you doing this. Let's create this role. for you.
So that partnership needs to be there, that partnership, that trust, and and so I really give, you know, a lot of credit to Pitt's leadership, SHRS leadership to really, allowing me, the privilege of doing this work, which sometimes, takes a really long time to bear fruit. So to be able to say, you know, okay, this project's gonna be a couple years long and we're not gonna see the benefits of it for a while and be okay.
With that. And again, that think it speaks to that ROI looking at ROI differently Yes. And being able to say, okay, we, trust you. And we also accept the fact that some of the projects aren't gonna work out the way you want it or the way we want it. And That's okay. it also, I think, helps that I'm a little bit of a workaholic.
Helen Tanner: Yes.
Dipu Patel: So, so, you know, that's good or bad, however you wanna frame that. Mm-hmm. Some days I feel like, oh my God, depu, but then there are other days I'm like, great, but I also really enjoy what I do. And so I think that's, that's
Helen Tanner: key
Dipu Patel: part of it.
Helen Tanner: That's key.
Dipu Patel: Yeah. when you were saying about how like stepping up and raising your hand earlier, it's interesting.
So I have, my daughter's about to go to college and I've been talking, you know, she's been talking about like where she wants to go and whatnot. And one of the things I've kind of started, we've been having a lot of philosophical discussions about life decisions and milestones and things like that.
And, I said to her, one of the things, this was a reflection of my own, which is. When someone said in a meeting, who wants to do this, or Who wants to lead this? I was the one who raised my hand and I said, I'll do it. And there are things that I've done. Something as simple as like volunteering to do the schedule, for example, in urgent care or wherever it was.
Those kinds of skills have paid off dividends years later. Because it was not a skill that I was taught. I just volunteered for it and I learned it on the fly, and it has helped me in project management. It has helped me in, you know, sprint cycles, all sorts of things. So even if you think that. To your point, it was like, if you have an idea that you might wanna do this, it doesn't have to be exactly tangential or connected to that.
There may be a skill that you will pick up doing something that is completely out of your wheelhouse or your interest that will pay off for you 20 years later. And so I can't stress enough the willingness to step up. Yeah.
Helen Tanner: 100% agree with that. And, I, yes, that is a wonderful takeaway for today's is raise your hand, step up volunteer.
Dipu Patel: Yeah. And you never know where it will lead you. If you're early career, obviously, if you're late career, I think everyone can resonate with this. so tell us. and we've talked about it, but what are you focused on now? Tell us what you're doing in your world now. What you, you know, you're building a very important program, I guess.
Helen Tanner: Is there anything else that, You know, where you are now? Are you writing another book? Are you watching any other tools?
Dipu Patel: I'm starting to think Tell it all. Yeah. I'm starting to think about another book. I don't quite have an idea quite yet, but I've, I mean, I have a few ideas. I haven't. Solidified it.
but, and the name of your book Remind.
Oh. The name of the book is Digital Health, telemedicine and Beyond. It's published by Elsevier. It came out in 2024. and it covers the gamut, everything. and by the way, it's written, I've written a few chapters in it. I'm the editor of it.
But it's written by PAs, it's written by, doctors. It's written by digital humanities experts on ai. there's chapters in there that are, that have been written by PA students who are actively pursuing their PA degree because I thought it was important to bring
Helen Tanner: Excellent,
Dipu Patel: the lens of the future generation.
Mm-hmm. Because these are the students who are gonna go out there and practice and take care of us when we're. Old ladies, and I want them to know, I want them to know how to take care of me, right? Not just through technology, but through the human touch. And so, there's several legal and ethical chapters in there written by lawyers who practice in this space.
So it covers the gamut. I think it's a really great book, and a really great text to have at your program for various, chapters. What am I working on now? So. at the program level, I've just refreshed to this digital health AI elective that I offer.
and our program is really, doing quite well. our program is focused on qi, so again, teaching the skills that are really important. And so all of these AI and digital health kind of skills kind of bridge and marry each other in the program. And it's doing really well. Our graduates are really, really happy with the skill sets that they take away.
I also am offering, a series of modules for, PA programs to be delivered to PA students they're starting to kind of learn the basics of
Helen Tanner: outstanding,
Dipu Patel: here's here's what it is. Mm-hmm. And here's how you should think about it. And because knowing all the students are using AI tools and they're studying and their as they should be to leverage whatever it takes for them to understand it.
But if you're using them poorly. You're gonna get poor outputs. I've advised, several PA students who when I've mentored and coached them, have gone from like, you know, C'S and D's to high B's. And a's just through, they're like, I used this and it didn't work. And I'm like, okay, tell me how you're using it.
Mm-hmm. And here's how you change how you're using it to help you better understand it. And then. I mean it within three weeks, they're seeing differences and it's all about how they're using it. And the same thing for faculty, like they're all using it. No one's admitting to it. I'll put that out there.
There's whole like shadow ai. Yeah. That's happening. I would be willing to bet that many of them are using it incorrectly, or at least could be using it better. Yes. Let's just put it that way.
Helen Tanner: Mm-hmm.
Dipu Patel: Um, that's my goal, right. Let's prepare that next generation to whether, I don't need them to know the technical details of all these things, but I need them to know, be able to ask the questions.
Like if, if you are. Healthcare organization comes to you and says, I want you to use this. I want them to be able to ask questions like, okay, how was it trained? Is it applicable to what patients? and things like that. And then I guess the last thing of what I'm working on is the unknown, because I don't know what's coming next and I'm gonna have to kind of relearn.
Or, and unlearn a lot of things. that is the other thing we have to unlearn a lot of bad habits in mm-hmm. From our clinical training and our clinical practice in order for us to move forward and leverage some of these tools and technology.
Helen Tanner: Mm-hmm.
Dipu Patel: I'm thinking back on a recent post that I had put on LinkedIn and someone had asked, it was on ambient scribing and somebody asked like, it's the hallucinations or the problem, like when it doesn't.
Accurately capture what you should. the question that comes up to me in my head is, why are we asking for perfection from a tool that was never intended to be perfect? And also, by the way, humans are not perfect humans. Would also not document as accurately? That happens more often than an AI tool, I would argue so.
The goal is to not look for perfection in these tools and workflows and processes is to look for the wins.
Helen Tanner: Yeah.
Dipu Patel: The incremental wins that will really make your life a little bit better.
Helen Tanner: Yeah. Well said. this has been such a fantastic time and such good, information. I'm curious. As we close, what was the single most helpful resource for you?
A person, a tool, book, framework, community that you leaned on, when you transitioned from clinical to startup, and why or how did you utilize it?
Dipu Patel: I, and I mentioned this earlier, it's a mindset, like really a shift in my mindset of. Should I be doing this? I wasn't ever trained to do it to saying, yes, I can do this.
I just need to think of it differently. And really applying that systems thinking mindset, it doesn't come easily. There's a lot of, anxiety ridden evenings where I'm like, oh my gosh, yes. Did I do this? Did I make this right? did I make the right decision? it's a lot of talking to, friends and colleagues who.
Are not necessarily in the space, but sometimes are in the same spaces. but really ta listening and having them ask the question in a different way. Because I think when you ask yourself a question, you tend to frame it as talking down to yourself or in a derogatory manner. Doubting yourself. Yeah.
Doubting yourself. Right. That imposter syndrome kind of questions. Mm-hmm. And then when someone else asks you the same question, they frame it differently. And you're able to then provide them with that clarity of thought and you're like, oh, why didn't I think of that?
Helen Tanner: Yeah.
Dipu Patel: So talking to people and really reaching out and using the community, and I'm hoping that that's what I'm building through LinkedIn and all those posts that I'm doing.
I'm hoping that that community is being, open enough and Yes. What you are doing, right? Yes. same sort of thing, being able to make these connections because I think. This is the way we're going to end up expanding our scope.
Helen Tanner: Yes.
Dipu Patel: It's not just about expanding clinical scope and clinical practice, which is important.
Absolutely. But if we don't start partnering and learning how to partner with other industries, we're not going to be able to make that systems level impact that we want as a profession. Right, and And that's true as leaders. It's true if we work in pharma, it's true. If you work in a startup or thinking about a startup, it's true if you're an entrepreneur and starting your own practice as a pa.
All of these things, really, and the more you'd be surprised, and I'm sure you have been pleasantly surprised how many people are actually in this space. We just don't have a place to cohesively
Helen Tanner: Yes.
Dipu Patel: Talk about these things.
Helen Tanner: Mm-hmm.
Dipu Patel: And I think it's really, really important. The other thing I would say.
And this is the thing that I like, I sometimes I preach, which is I really need PA programs to start thinking about leadership training embedded into, the curriculum.
Helen Tanner: Yes.
Dipu Patel: one of the things that I've often said to a lot of folks in academia who are especially in the PA world, and I was like, accreditation standards require us to teach the history of the PA profession, which is great.
Like, I'm not saying no. Why are we also not spending equal amount of time of what the future of our professionalism?
Helen Tanner: Mm-hmm.
Dipu Patel: Like,
Helen Tanner: yes. Agreed.
Dipu Patel: That that should be part of it. we have a lot to learn from history, so why are we not teaching them how to apply that?
Helen Tanner: Mm-hmm. Very well said, and I thank you for your work with that, with, driving the change of education with our profession and I mean, and we're seeing it across clinical professions and that we all need to catch up with this.
Yes. Because as I'm sure you're seeing on LinkedIn and through associations and conferences. Physicians, nps, PAs, PTs, pharmacists, everybody is, everybody is battling this. history versus future and how to educate earlier the new generation, because I think our generation. People are leaving the clinical professions, because it's just gotten too much burnout.
it's not sustainable.
Dipu Patel: Yeah.
Helen Tanner: And so for many reasons, or it's challenging to be sustainable. And so if we can teach some of these things early on, can we salvage kind of a mass.
Dipu Patel: Absolutely
Helen Tanner: leaving and keep these wonderful clinicians in at, at all their you know, in their different professions.
Um, and just alter the education or modify it, add on to what we've been doing to give them more skills to succeed. So I, I really, appreciate
Dipu Patel: Yeah.
Helen Tanner: Your work in that.
Dipu Patel: The, the other part is like really looking at our curricula. And I know there's a lot of things that mitigate curriculum change and redesign, but
Helen Tanner: yes.
Dipu Patel: Many programs still teach a curriculum that is 20, 30 years old.
Helen Tanner: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Dipu Patel: I went to school 25, 26 years ago.
Helen Tanner: Mm-hmm.
Dipu Patel: Where it was memorize these 50 hypertension drugs, memorize these doses. 'cause you're gonna have to know them. we don't need to memorize doses and. Lists of drug names anymore.
Yeah. Like that we've decided we can outsource that to the ehr. Right? It's not that you shouldn't know what they are, it's that you don't have to remember every single dose, Of a hypertension medication, for example. so just like that, like, in that vein as we have adopted the curriculum, and that's one very tiny example, we really need to start thinking about what.
Re-envisioning of teaching curricula looks like, because even the students from five years ago are not the students who are coming in, today. And there's a reason. There's a, there's a lot of systems level and generational level things that are feeding into that. Right. hear a lot of faculty saying, oh, these students, they're just, they're using AI for everything.
They're not gonna teach them any critical thinking. And I'm like. but that's your job as an educator to adopt and adapt your assignments to make sure that if they are using AI, then you need to learn how to use the AI tools so that you are adopting your assignments to making sure that they're doing critical thinking.
Helen Tanner: Yes,
Dipu Patel: that's high school students are doing that now. High school teachers are doing that now. So why would we expect them to do anything differently? 'cause that's what they were taught in high school. At a graduate level.
Helen Tanner: Yes. Love it.
Dipu Patel: And it's work in progress, right? Yeah. Like that's the other part of it.
So. I think we've moved beyond the fear of AI taking over our jobs to now we're, I think, in the denial phase.
Helen Tanner: Right?
Dipu Patel: Right, right. Like, I'm gonna use it, but I'm not gonna tell anyone I'm using it.
Helen Tanner: Right.
Dipu Patel: Which is what, which is what is happening in clinical practice as well as in academia. that's what's happening.
And so until we're all like, everyone just freaking use it.
Helen Tanner: Yes, everyone use it
Dipu Patel: just to use it and say, you know what? I used it smarter and it sucked. It did not give me this answer the way I wanted it, and here's what happened. And learn from each other.
Helen Tanner: Yes. Yes. Agreed. Well, thank you so much Depu, for sharing your experience and your expertise.
I appreciated the depth of our conversation and I just really appreciate your time.
Dipu Patel: Thank you so much for having me, Helen. Sure.
