What Gets You Promoted: A Health Tech SVP on Leadership, Red Flags, and the Leaders Who Rise - with Laura Demuth, MSN, NP-BC
- Jul 29
- 32 min read
Why Servant Leadership Needs an Asterisk with Laura Demuth, MSN, NP-BC
Laura Demuth, MSN, NP-BC, joined Curology, then known as Pocket Derm, as employee number 12 nearly a decade ago. Today, she serves on the executive team as Senior Vice President of People and Patients, helping lead an organization that serves millions of patients while overseeing teams across people operations, patient experience, and clinical functions.
In this episode, Laura shares the leadership lessons she has learned through years of building teams in a high-growth startup. At the center of the conversation is her philosophy of "servant leadership, with an asterisk." She explains why supporting your team should never come at the expense of your own voice as a leader and how that perspective has evolved throughout her career.
Helen and Laura discuss the importance of building trust before difficult conversations, why "clear is kind" has become one of Laura's guiding leadership principles, and the five qualities she believes every leader should develop: trust, humility, accountability, curiosity, and courage. They also explore what distinguishes clinicians who grow into effective leaders, from demonstrating mission alignment and informal leadership to becoming a student of the business and adapting through change.
This episode offers practical insights for leading people, developing culture, and helping others grow without losing yourself in the process.
Must-Hear Insights and Key Moments
Servant leadership, with an asterisk. Laura explains why the best leaders support their teams without removing themselves from the table.
Why "clear is kind." Learn how trust makes difficult conversations more effective and why avoiding conflict is not the same as being compassionate.
The five leadership non-negotiables. Laura shares the values that shape her leadership approach: trust, humility, accountability, curiosity, and courage.
What separates clinicians who become great leaders. Mission alignment, informal leadership, business curiosity, and adaptability are often stronger predictors than clinical expertise alone.
Become a student of the business. Understanding finance, operations, product, and strategy helps clinicians become more influential leaders.
Give away your Legos. Laura explains how letting go of responsibilities creates opportunities for others to grow and allows leaders to scale their impact.
Words of Wisdom: Standout Quotes from This Episode
" I think servant leadership can imply that you lose yourself and that you put everyone above yourself, and there's no room for you at the table. I actually think that can be detrimental over years." - Laura Demuth
" I want to promote a clinician into leadership is, and this will sound very basic, but it is not always the case, is that true mission alignment.” - Laura Demuth
”Learn from your finance partner or CFO, ask pointed questions, and build understanding across how the business works so you can better serve both the business and your clinicians.” - Laura Demuth
“We are natural educators as clinicians. How can we reach across that gap and create solutions that work for providers, for patients, and for the business at large?” - Laura Demuth
“My natural inclination is to smooth the edges and not rock the boat or put waves into the system.” - Laura Demuth
“ There may be certain people that needs to be vented to, and there's a time for that. The better use is productive, solution brainstorming, and even being honest.” - Helen Tanner
“In some ways giving away your Lego is a double servant: to yourself by freeing your plate, and to the people who are wanting to grow by giving them the chance to grow.” - Helen Tanner
“It may take a series of conversations before non‑clinical leaders fully see the value of this change.” - Helen Tanner
“I would put on invisible armor when something was not working out, let someone go and support their next steps, and it truly helped.” - Helen Tanner
“When we're in the patient setting, we do have to give hard news. sometimes we do have to give the diagnoses that are life altering and, often, just in different ways.” - Helen Tanner
Mentioned in the episode:
About Laura
Laura Demuth, MSN, NP-BC, is a nurse practitioner and healthcare executive with experience spanning inpatient care, outpatient medicine, and high-growth healthcare startups. She began her clinical career at Albany Medical Center before becoming a nurse practitioner in internal medicine.
She joined early-stage telehealth company Pocket Derm, now Curology, as employee number 12, where she worked across clinical care, recruiting, and team building as the organization scaled. Over time, she moved into senior leadership roles spanning clinical operations, licensing, customer experience, and people functions.
She currently serves as Senior Vice President of People and Patients at Curology and sits on the executive team, supporting both clinician and patient-facing organizations within a large-scale telehealth company.
Curology is a direct-to-consumer telehealth dermatology company on a mission to make effective skincare accessible, connecting patients with licensed medical providers for personalized prescription treatments. Patients complete a quick assessment, receive custom-formulated skincare shipped straight to their door, and get expert care and ongoing follow-up from their dedicated medical provider.
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Blog Transcript:
Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies
Helen Tanner: Hi, I'm Helen, your host of The Early Hires. Most clinicians are taught that a career is a ladder. You train, you practice, you climb the rungs that are already there. you're here because you know that startups are not this typical career path, and those rungs are not always set. My guest today walked off that traditional, quote, ladder, quote, path almost a decade ago.
Laura DeMuth sat- started at the bedside in some of the most hardest settings in nursing. She became a nurse practitioner, and then she was hired as employee number 12 at an early-stage telehealth company back when the job included everything from seeing patients to stuffing boxes of product. Over a decade later and 200 million in growth, she sits on the executive team, leading people, medical licensing, and customer functions of a company that has grown to serve millions of patients.
Laura is a noted leader and generous guest on various media platforms, sharing about her transition and her growth as a clinician leader. Many of you listening already lead. You're running teams, you're building clinical organizations, and you're making the hard calls. Laura has been exactly doing that at scale for years.
So today is not about how to make the leap. It's about how she actually leads, what has worked, what she has learned the hard way, and what she has watched in other leaders around her. Building in a startup is hard. Staying in a startup is hard. But it's also incredibly rewarding and provides leadership lessons that cannot be taught really anywhere else.
So I'm so glad she's here to share with us all. Welcome, Laura.
Laura Demuth: Thank you, Helen, so much for the introduction. I appreciate it. I'm so excited to be here with you today.
Helen Tanner: intro, the short version. How did you get from bedside nurse to one of the first clinical hires at a startup, and then to the executive team?
And if you'd like, share a high level about your company and the role that you hold now.
Laura Demuth: Sure. Absolutely. my path certainly has not been linear in any way, shape, or form in my career, and I think that's, so common these days, especially for clinicians. And so I love being able to share that story.
like you mentioned, I'm a registered nurse, nurse practitioner, started at the bedside and working in Upstate New York in Albany Medical Center, with, incarcerated patients in the locked unit, as well as our infectious disease unit, and then went on to, work in inpatient hematology/oncology, for a number of years.
And it was there that, I fell in love, of course, with the profession that I knew that I wanted to choose. However, it was very apparent to me that 30 years at the bedside as a nurse was not going to be the path that I wanted to choose. and so I wanted to, keep, rising the ranks a bit to be able to have a broader impact on patients.
And as such, I, got my nurse practitioner degree and became an NP and went into clinic. And I thought to myself, "Gosh, if I just have a Monday through Friday, 8:00 to 5:00, no call, I've made it. I've reached the peak of my career- ... if I can just have that level of stability." And how quickly, as a young NP, I got into that and thought to myself, "Gosh, this is not what I want."
I am seeing 30 patients a day for internal medicine, very high acuity- Mm-hmm ... outpatient, comorbidities, multiple comorbidities, not a lot of, oversight and team camaraderie in the first environment I was in. learning on the fly. And I thought, "Gosh, I'm staring at a screen. I'm not staring at my patient and helping them in any way, shape, or form."
I knew, again, there that a life of this was not for me. life, brought me from the East Coast out to the West Coast. I'm currently in San Diego, California. And as I got out here a bit over a decade ago, I was immersed more so in the world of biotech and pharma and startups in a way that I never was in Upstate New York.
And it really opened my eyes to the aperture of where I could be beneficial from a clinical perspective. And it's then that I met the co-founders, mother and son dermatologists, of a company called Pocket Derm, which is now Curology- Mm-hmm ... which is where I work, that I joined, about 11 years ago, and I just fell in love completely with the mission.
we are on a mission to make effective skincare accessible. We do telehealth dermatology, primarily treating acne, but a variety of other skin conditions that are easily diagnosed and treated via telehealth. I can get into, my role of course at a later time. But I, took the leap. I put both feet in.
I could not wait to, have this level of impact across, hundreds of thousands of patients versus the 30 I was seeing per day. had no idea what a startup was actually at the time. It was pre-pandemic, so telehealth wasn't really that cool also at the time. I had colleagues and friends and family being like, "You're what?
You're hanging up your stethoscope and your lab coat and you're gonna go sit, in your flip-flops in an office eating snacks and seeing patients on a screen?" I said, "Absolutely. I'm gonna do that." But as you alluded to, and as many who are listening know, an early-stage startup, you don't just do what's on your job description if you're, one of the lucky few to even have a job description already written for you.
You do anything and everything, to make the company successful, and that was everything from, seeing the patients, to stuffing the boxes, to mixing medication, as we got Series B, recruit, hire and train, our clinical team, which is where my journey started there.
And my CEO at the time said, "Okay, it's time. We gotta go hire a bunch more of you." and that's when I dipped my toes in the water of recruiting and then leading the medical team, which we scaled up to about 150 clinicians full time at our peak. And I'd never had any recruiting experience or anything like that, but I said, "I'm gonna figure this out."
That's the mindset you have in an early-stage startup. and built an incredible team of clinicians, like-minded clinicians, who wanted to do new and different things and impact patients in new and innovative ways. And then I kind of continued, as you alluded to in the intro, pick up a few different organizations from time to time.
I never thought as a nurse in my early career that I'd be leading, the teams that I'm leading now. But I have the privilege of also- Running our medical licensing team. So anyone working in telehealth knows how important that licensing piece is to the success of you as a clinician. we have a small but mighty team that does that for our Curology clinicians.
Customer success is our other patient-facing organization here at Curology. So they are, a team of amazing specialists who help our patients with their non-clinical questions. and then my last, hat, but certainly not least, the one that's made me think, and stretch, and bend the most is my head of people hat.
Helen Tanner: Mm-hmm.
Laura Demuth: my exact title at Curology is senior vice president of people and patients, and I often have to get onto interviews and explain, exactly what that means and why this actually isn't as weird of a split as it may seem at first glance. I provide the same level of care to patients and providers as I do now to across all of our employees, across all the entities we have at Curology.
being able to be that second clinician under our founder, who was also a, clinician, he's a dermatologist, gave me a seat at the table very early on. You asked about the executive team, and I was really fortunate to be given that seat at the table and be able to continue to represent that at every level, even as the organization has shifted over all these years.
I'm incredibly grateful for my journey and incredibly grateful to still be here at Curology after 11 years. I feel like a startup dinosaur- ... a little bit, 'cause oftentimes we're switching in between or, picking up a lot of different things. But, it definitely has filled my change bucket a lot over the years, and I'm looking forward to all the next years to come.
Helen Tanner: I really love your title, and, in my last role, my title was VP of Clinical Development. that was so large and encompassing. I basically chose that title because I knew, at first it was gonna be... Because I was there kind of from, from day one, so it was gonna be, like, VP of Clinical Ops.
But when I was looking at everything that the CEO was asking me to do, know, I said, "Well, this is much more than, just kind of like the straight ops." You know? I'm just... It's a lot of development. and I really liked that title because so many things fell under it. I think, you know, like, SVP of People, and I know yours is, is longer than that, but I just love the roles of, the title of, People.
You know? Because there's so much development and creativity and all-encompassing that goes in managing, I guess, the people of the organization. And in your case, there's the clinicia- you know, there's so many different types of people. And so just to say solely HR or, whatnot, I mean, it's just,
allows for a lot more creativity in your role, which is, from everything you've shared, is very much what your role is about. It's so all-encompassing. I think I joked with you earlier, are you sure you're not, like, an all-encompassing, like, COO and CPO or something? So, but anyways, such is life of startup.
But, at what point did you stop thinking of yourself, as a clinician who maybe happened to manage or maybe was managing, and then start really thinking of yourself as I am in a leadership role?
Laura Demuth: That is a really excellent question. Gosh, and that's not one I've actually reflected on all that much, but there is a pivotal point where that shifts a bit.
And I think, you as a fellow clinician, all the clinicians listening, we are... Once we are a clinician, we're never not a clinician. we always- Right ... have pieces of us that are DNA. But there definitely was a shift early on where I say 40 hours a week in air quotes. Startups are never 40 hours a week.
You're working many, many more than that. But my time spent towards work during the week became less and less direct patient care focused, and more and more focused on how am I driving the business? How am I growing the team? How am I creating culture? How am I creating process, once we got to a certain point.
So I would say in my trajectory, that's probably around Series B, maybe a couple of years in, where we really started to mature, a lot of what we were doing, crystallize a lot of the things that kind of hadn't been put on paper yet. And I think also when I got handed my first P&L and I had to- Mm ... Google what P&L meant.
And for those listening at home, profit and loss statement, financial statement. I had to figure that out as I was given, you know, a multimillion-dollar budget to manage that I'd never done before, and I think that was the pivotal point where I was like, " Now I'm a clinician business leader together," and no longer just a clinician who's, like, wearing the coat of someone else day by day.
I really fully stepped into it around that time.
Helen Tanner: Yeah. I get asked questions about this a lot, and I'm sure you do, too, especially as more and more leadership roles open for APPs, whether it's in a startup or a hospital system or clinic setting, is how you balance kind of that transition from clinical manager and then stepping into full leadership role that may or may not really have any more clinical duties.
You explained it a little bit, but I'm curious, how did you phase out of clinical? what... It sounds like it was gradual for you. it was definitely gradual for me. I mean, one of the challenges from the business side that I'm sure you can appreciate, too, is that revenue negotiation as you lose the clinical revenue piece of your role as a clinician in trading those RVUs into the leadership admin side, which you're not bringing in, quote, "those RVUs."
And I know that's a lot of the conversation that I have with my colleagues as they're talking about this and going to their supervisors and asking and trying to negotiate. how can you still make sure you are providing enough value to them to trade, bottom line, the revenue that you're potentially walking away from for them?
And so anyway, I'm curious, how did you handle that? how do you handle that now even in your role as a leader?
Laura Demuth: It's a really great question. I think the structure at Curology has been such that there's not a ton of, like, rev share type of stuff with the providers. I haven't had as much on that direct experience.
However, I have had to whittle down my patient care responsibilities. You know, in the beginning, I was seeing patients 100% and then doing everything else, you know, another 100%. and I would say now, I still see patients, a small portion of my time. I think it's really important for us as clinical leaders to not fully lose touch- Right
especially if we're managing clinicians, which so many of us are, to really understand there's a reason why clinicians are promoted into leadership or put in leadership positions. We're the best people to manage our people. and so I always wanna make sure to stay in touch with all of that.
And it was gradual over time. It was like, okay, I reached a point where I said, "I can no longer do the patient load that I have. I need to give those Legos away to other people, and those patients can be better managed by those who are doing this role, full time." and as far as your,comment on, on providing value, that is...
much more tricky because it's not as black and white. It's not as quantitative. I can't say I'm bringing in X amount of dollars or Y amount of dollars to the business and then that justifies, the role that I'm in. it's much more... clinicians will have to find much more subjective ways to have to get at that.
And, The needs of each organization is different. And so I think you and anyone listening know exactly what the DNA of that org is and where you can provide the most value, and what's of most importance to your supervisors who are likely not clinical, and likely don't have that background.
Helen Tanner: Mm-hmm. Yeah. that can be challenging, but certainly doable and, many of us, do it. And, it just may take a series of conversations. it may be this is an introduction to the conversation and then a follow-up and a follow-up and a follow-up. It may take a while the leaders who are not clinicians to really sit on what this value and this change might look like.
And so don't give up if the first time it's a no. reframe, ask the questions about, " Well, what would it take?" What are your concerns about this?" So I wanna start with a little bit about your leadership style and how you actually lead. A lot of this audience leads teams in a startup already or wanting to elevate their leadership level.
How would you describe your leadership style? What shaped it?
Laura Demuth: I think being a clinician really shaped it at its core. I mean, there's a reason why all of us go into medicine or any kind of allied health profession. it's to help people, and that has been the thesis of my career no matter what setting I'm in, whether it's clinical or primarily not clinical.
And so just that fundamental drive to be doing something where at the end of the day, someone's life is better or someone's day is better because of, maybe not me directly, but something that I'm influencing or bringing to the table. as far as my leadership style goes, as cliche as it sounds, I do think I align mostly with the servant leadership, philosophy and, I will say as I've gotten older and I've become a mom, I've become a parent also, and my time became a lot more condensed, as that happens, as many probably can relate to, I usually say now servant leadership with an asterisk.
Because I think servant leadership can imply that you lose yourself and that you put everyone above yourself, and there's no room for you at the table. And I actually think that is, can be detrimental over years and years and years. So, I encourage anyone who subscribes to that servant leadership philosophy, as I did for many years, to not,count yourself out of that equation.
Because once you do, it's hard to get yourself back in that. but it's very much around being deeply supportive of the people that I manage, not only the ones directly, but those who all ladder up into my organizations. I believe people need clear expectations, honest feedback. They need to see how their work ladders up to the main company goals, and that's really easy for clinicians.
We know exactly, when you see a patient, how that resonates with the mission of the organization and what our responsibilities are. as clinicians who are listening broaden their capabilities to manage other functions, it may be a little harder to show them exactly what you're doing in your day-to-day is laddering up to making a patient's life better.
So, I also really strive to connect all those dots across business and clinical, ' cause I think that context setting is really important. a recent colleague of mine actually introduced me to, an African proverb and philosophy called Ubuntu, which translates to, "I am because we are." And I really, really loved what that meant, because it meant the success that we all experience as a leadership team, as an organization, as a company, as humanity, is shared.
And, what I do not only affects me, but it affects you, and the person next to you- Yeah ... and the person next to you. And it was really beautiful way to think about how we're all interconnected, and the decisions that we make, not only for patients, but for the organization in general, can either lift everybody up together or bring everybody down together, as well.
So, I'll offer that to your listeners too as a kind of an alternative way to think about, leadership.
Helen Tanner: Yeah. I also noticed that you kind of loosely quoted Molly Graham Mm-hmm. Yeah ... about the give away your Legos. Yeah. And I recently learned about Molly Graham, probably in the past year, and
She's just, has such phenomenal advice, and the give away your Legos, talk article that she's written about, I encourage anyone to look that up also. But, I think in regards to servant leadership, that can be a switch, too, emphasize giving away some of the thingsThat you have done to, and built to others, it takes it off of your plate so that you can focus more on other things for you.
But also, on the other hand, it gives other people opportunity to shine in their way. So in some ways it's like double servant to you and then servant to the people who are wanting to grow.
Laura Demuth: Yes. I love... Thank you for bringing that article up. you picked up what I was putting down.
I think that should be as part of anyone's startup onboarding, is reading that article and thinking about that as a concept. Because a lot of the clinical leaders I've either worked with or connected with over the years, sometimes where people get stuck is that inability to do that.
Because your early work in a seed or Series A startup becomes your baby. It becomes, you know- Yes ... something you're so proud of. But in order to be able to go and ascend to do bigger and better things, you have to be able to lift all those up around you. and that's sometimes way easier said than done.
So yeah, totally. I love that, concept.
Helen Tanner: Yeah. And that, actually leads into a question I have for you. So your team hires people. Obviously, you've had teams in along the way of various types and sizes. I guess this might be hard to answer quickly, what has made a good clinician leadership hire?
And then on the flip side, and you kind of mentioned it a little bit, but when might you h- start to have red flags that maybe- they need to go back and get some more training or improvement before the clinician can be in a leadership role? Is there anything that stands out to you there?
Laura Demuth: I love that question.
Yes. and I thought about it a lot, and I've had the privilege of, being able to promote many, many clinical leaders at Curology into new and different roles, into paths not necessarily just like mine, but on their own trajectory of, "Gosh, I'm doing something new and different that I never thought of when I went to PA school or NP school or medical school."
we found needs, and we filled those needs, with those clinical leaders. And I think the baseline thing I see and look for when I want to promote a clinician into leadership is, number one, and this will sound very basic, but it's not always the case, is that true mission alignment, Yeah
and, and really being able to articulate that very well, understanding, how this all fits together and what the broader purpose is. Purpose matters, but, purpose isn't the whole story. It's just table stakes that they have that. and then I would say there's also an affinity for are they an informal leader?
And when we hire and train and we bring on clinicians to learn the craft at Curology or whatever, company that you're in, naturally people kind of rise to the occasion of are they the people that their colleagues will go to for questions off the sides of their desks? Are they the people that people go to for advice?
Those natural leadership, capabilities start to emerge when you have groups of people going through the same process, at the same time. And some want to stay clinicians, and that's their sweet spot, and that's what we need. We need people to see our patients. But as organizations change and grow, they also need more clinical leaders.
I would also say deeply curious is another. that is something that I learned very on also for myself is I can't just understand how the clinical side of our business works. I need to understand how everything works. I need to know how the marketing works. I need to know how the other operations work.
I need to know how the money flows. I need to know how we make revenue. And I need to know where our costs are, where are the things that I can impact. And so I often encourage, clinical leaders both- Here in my own organization and those who I've crossed paths with to really be a student of the business that you're in.
send a Slack message, send an email, find your finance partner, talk to your CFO if your company is small enough or your, head of finance, whatever you've got. Grab a digital coffee with them if they're not in your office. Learn from them and ask pointed questions because all of that knowledge will better serve you as a clinical leader serving both the business and your clinicians as well.
And then I'll say lastly on that point, adaptability to change is a not, complete non-negotiable for any startup employee, more so for clinical leadership, I think. and so I always will look for clinicians who've been able to really get it around the corner each time we've made a pivot and have been change champions versus change resisters.
and then I'll pivot over to the red flags and, very fortunately I've not had, a lot of situations where I've had to say, " No, this isn't working out. You know, we have to put you back in a clinical role." but it's, things that are anti to the things I just mentioned.
So if someone is not super amenable to change or able to really inspire their team to be able to adapt, I think that's, a pretty big red flag. someone who can't get on board with what we're doing for patients is also, something that you don't really want in a clinical leader.
and really someone who's not naturally curious. They're gonna be stuck in their ways. they're g- not going to ask the right questions or any questions. and so they're just not gonna be the culture builders or the change champions that you need as a more senior clinical leader to be able to rise your organization to the occasion.
Helen Tanner: Yeah ...
Laura Demuth: very fortunate to grow most leaders. not have had to, punt a lot of folks back- Sure ... into clinical practice, but, there is two sides to every coin.
Helen Tanner: Yeah. Well, that speaks a lot about the training and mentorship that you all have for sure. I know one thing that stood out to me when I was in that role was, clinicians who spoke up in meetings or would talk to me offline or whatever, and who would share a concern or share something that they're going through and offer a solution.
Yes. versus just complaining, complaining, complaining. There's a time to vent, sure, there may be certain people that needs to be vented to, and there's a time for that. the better use is productive, solution brainstorming.
and even being honest. Like, "I don't know how to solve this. I want to, but this is what I'm experiencing." I know that's something that stood out to me, and typically the people that did that, they were on the path of leadership for sure.
Laura Demuth: I 100% agree. It is much easier to brainstorm with someone who has already thought about it.
Even if they're not thinking about it the right way, they don't have all the context- Right ... that you have as a leader, that effort really matters. And I think where I see that show up a lot, in tech startups that have the clinical bend is the collaboration with tech and product teams, engineering and product teams.
Yes. As, they don't understand or they've never been a clinician, well, help them understand. That's We're natural educators as clinicians. How can we reach across that gap and, you know, really create something, a solution that works for everyone, for providers and for patients, and truly for the business at large?
So 100% agree on that.
Helen Tanner: Is there a leadership lesson that you learned the hard way that you'd be interested in sharing and, something you would do differently if you were starting again?
Laura Demuth: Totally. I think the lesson that I learned the hard way, both in life and in leadership, is about having difficult and hard conversations.
Mm-hmm. And, not that I didn't have any of those when I was practicing at the bedside or in clinic. You certainly have to give people news that they don't wanna hear, and you have to give them feedback on, "Okay, you're not doing X, Y, Z to control your blood pressure. How can we work on that together?"
That's different than having a conversation with a colleague about, how certain things are going between the two teams that you have that are not collaborating well. Or that's different than having the conversation with the clinician who is really, were just talking, not solutions oriented , not mission-aligned, not ready to adapt to change.
and I think in the early parts of my career, I leaned very heavily on the people-pleasing aspects that I tend to rely on. And as I've gotten older, and I'll blame it on parenthood again too,Your attention span and your time get a lot, a lot smaller. Yes. And so my level of candor and being direct got much sharper, in the later years of my career here and, and where I am now.
So that is definitely something that I've had to learn on my own and, have some hard lessons along the way. I think where that shows up just more tactfully, I let things fester too long in terms of teams who weren't working well together versus saying what I would do right now if we were in the office together or if we were on Zoom together would get everybody in a room and let's have a conversation.
Let's pick up the phone. Let's not let weeks and months go by with things being unsaid. So I'd encourage anyone who feels that pull of people-pleasing to just kind of try to fight against that, especially in the cases where in, for the good of the patients and for the good of the organization that you're working in, those conversations do need to be had.
Helen Tanner: That is such a challenging, skill to, accomplish and obtain for some of us, and I resonate with that very much. the term that consistently comes to mind for me, and, isClear is kind. 'Cause I, very much, find myself like, the kind leader category in the sense where a people pleaser, and I've had to really, similar to you, kind of overcome that- letting things fester or not wanting to hurt people's feelings or not wanting to address it, that is not kind actually.
That is confusing and, it doesn't bode for the team's success. And so that is something that is a really important thing to learn sooner than later. and then once you, you do, you just see those results in such a great way. so- I
Laura Demuth: agree ... I
Helen Tanner: resonate with that.
Mm-hmm.
Laura Demuth: I'll also add, too, the trust piece is really important because- Mm-hmm ... you know, have- working to establish that baseline level of trust with your colleagues and with your team members makes those difficult conversations a little bit easier because you're not... You're, you're assuming positive intent.
You're both coming from a place- Mm-hmm ... of look, I've known you, we've worked together. Here's some really hard stuff that's going on. So I think that's, another lesson, another leadership lesson is put the effort and time in in the very beginning to build those relationships, whether they're with fellow clinicians or with colleagues, that are non-clinical- Mm-hmm
because that baseline trust will, will pay off in the long run absolutely as you're trying to run teams and run organizations together.
Helen Tanner: I wanna get a little bit tactical, and send away our leader audience, I guess, takeaways, that you might be willing to share. if you had to name your top five leadership must-haves, the non-negotiables that really you wouldn't lead without, what would they be?
Laura Demuth: I'll start with trust- Yeah. ... 'cause I added it kind of last. I mean, in every aspect of life, right? It's not just in the workplace, but, you know, thinking about friendships and partnerships and all of that. It's, trust is so crucial, and I think that the second the trust erodes, things can slip through the cracks and organizations can twist and turn, and teams can in a way that is not good for patients, not good for the business.
humility is another thing that, it feels very core to me. I have come from a place of I didn't know anything about running, a million dollar P&L or leading hundreds of people. I had to learn from others along the way and actually say, "I need, I need help here," and raise my hand, and not be too proud to do it.
I also... A big subscriber of putting yourself in rooms where you are certainly not the smartest person, and you have everything to learn from everybody else. I believe that tables are round, and no matter what our backgrounds are, we're all coming on an even playing field and have something to learn from one another.
I would say accountability, too. Back to your clear is kind, I think having, holding our team members and our partners accountable in the workplace is hugely important and a non-negotiable for me as well, especially as I've learned to find more of my voice and, be able to share more directly, as time goes on.
curiosity, which I've mentioned as well. Mm-hmm. I think that's just core to every leader. And then the last I would say is courage.
Helen Tanner: Mm-hmm.
Laura Demuth: If you have the privilege of leading a bunch of people or serving a lot of patients, you are going to be put in situations that don't feel comfortable to you from time to time, and it's going to be a defining moment where you have to reach inside yourself to say, "Do I have this or do I not?
And how can I rise to the occasion that the team, the organization, whatever it is, needs me?" And it's gonna be an act of courage to be able to do that. So I would also say that feels like a non-negotiable for me as well.
Helen Tanner: All, absolutely important, leadership skills, no doubt.
Were any of those skills kind of less natural for you? And, is there anything that you did to hone those skills?
Laura Demuth: That's a great question. probably the courage piece, too, 'cause again, my natural inclination is to kinda like, smooth the edges and not rock the boat or put waves into the system.
And saying the hard things takes courage, and making hard decisions like shifting a team structure or, saying goodbye to treasured colleagues I'd worked with for years. As difficult as that is, those are decisions I needed to make and they take courage to do so. and then I would say the accountability piece, too.
I think, in very early startup days, you have many close colleagues you'd also consider friends, and that's a lot of fun, until you have to give some hard feedback and hold someone accountable for what's going on. And that's where the clear is kind, I think also plays a big role in, too,deeply, admire you and work with you so incredibly well.
This is why I'm giving you this feedback. This is why, we're having this conversation. so I think those two were probably, like, out of the five, less natural for me and have been a journey, to get to where I am today.
Helen Tanner: I have a friend who is a, communications executive and her focus is... Oh my gosh, I'm forgetting the explanation, but it's basically for companies that are going through chaotic or, challenging times.
And so she works with the C-level executives of how to navigate those conversations and the PR and around it. And anyway, there would be... I really valued her guidance, when I would have to have some really hard conversations that really stepping out of my comfort zone in a sense, and I needed a lot of courage to do it.
And she brought it back so simply for me, and you alluded to it a little bit earlier. We as clinicians, when we're in the patient setting, we do have to give hard news. sometimes we do have to give the diagnoses that is life altering and, often, just in different ways. Some have treatments, some don't, right?
And so for some, those are still difficult, but for some reason, I guess the training and the repetition about it, you can put on this like armor in a way where you're hopefully empathetic while you're delivering it and also, but clear and kind and supportive and then here are the next steps and
It's like you, can step into it and do it. It doesn't mean you don't think about it later. It's not hard. You don't lose sleep over it, but you get it done because that is what needs to get done and that patient deserves that. And I remember she broke it down for me. She's not a clinician at all, but she broke it down and she said, "Helen, you're just, do what you normally have done, but now you're just in a different setting.
You just step in, have, get it done, be kind, be respectful, share the next steps, and then move forward." And I don't know why it took her from an external perspective to impact me in that way but it did. And ever since then it's like I would put this armor, this invisible armor on when I had to go and, you know, for some reason something wasn't working out, let somebody, go and support them on their next steps or whatever it may be and it really helped.
It took out my emotion. it was just clear and supportive but then, structured. And, I don't know.that brought that up for me, you know, listening to how you say that too.
Laura Demuth: I love that. That's such a valuable lesson. I have found that many of the valuable lessons, sounds like you and also myself and maybe some of the folks listening, have learned, have not been from fellow clinicians- Yes
but it's those worlds that collide. we're not as different as we think as it comes from clinical settings to more corporate or startup settings. Yeah. So love that.
Helen Tanner: Yeah.
Laura Demuth: Beautiful.
Helen Tanner: as we wrap up, tell me what is a helpful resource person, a tool, book, any kind of framework or community that you leaned on or had when you navigated through different times within the startup that really impacted you or helped you?
Laura Demuth: That's a great question. I think less so, even though I will share a couple of books and resources. more so when I think back on my journey and what's been pivotal as far as helping me get from A to B, B to C, C to D, is more so the people. it's people that you surround yourself with.
Mm-hmm. The people that you wanna learn from. It's mentors. and so for me, most of those were non-clinical leaders, people that I worked with very early on who worked in finance or operations, really expanded my mental aperture for what I could do and what my organization, the medical team could do.
and so I really credit a lot of that early learning and openness and curiosity on the mindset side to being able to grow. And so I would encourage anyone to lean into that, no matter if you've got that in your organization or if you can find that in other communities. I think that's really important.
I would say more on the resource side as far as what you can pick up or what you can, Google online. A couple of books that I really love are, one's called Multipliers, and I'm blanking on the name of the author, but I can send that to you. And it's all about, how you might infer from the title, but how you as a singular person can use your leadership and influence to help multiply the effect in others.
And it- Hmm ... far outweighs the number of bodies you have on your team when you can actually bring people together in a way that's productive and constructive and, mission aligned. So I think that's a really great book. and then The Fearless Organization is another one I really love, too. organizational philosophies there about, when you have psychologically safe environments, just the true capabilities, that can be had.
So that on the book side. on the digital community side, too, I would say to everyone, don't underestimate the world that we live in right now of being so digitally connected. I know we're all spending a lot of time at our computers working and doing other things, but, 15 or more years ago, my only networking was my, state or local chapter meetings from, for Nurse Practitioner- Yeah
Society, for, in California. And now I can at any point in any time meet anyone online- Yeah ... to have a conversation. You and I are sitting in two different states right now, which is incredible. and I would encourage people to lean into their networks and be curious, and find others to have conversations with.
communities like Health Tech Nerds is really incredible, and your community as well, which I know you're growing. The Early Hires, is another great one. Thank you. I encourage people to find those spaces to have conversations that matter,
Helen Tanner: Thank you. And how has a clinician shaped the way you operate in startups and vice versa?
How has startup work impacted you as a clinician?
Laura Demuth: Another really great question. I think, being a clinician at its core taught me... Well, I shouldn't say taught me, honed my empathy, my empathetic skills, my critical thinking. How can I put data together to be able to make a diagnosis? make decisions with incomplete information, so on the fly, how can I, without the full picture, say, "I think it's this, I'm gonna treat you with this."
so I came into the startup world with those, preset things that I had incorporated from my clinical career. I think what startups really honed and taught me, startup, I've been at one startup, for the last 11 years, which is still very much a startup to this day as well, is really that adaptability, that speed and comfort with ambiguity that I think in tried and true medicine, ambiguity feels a little bit uncomfortable 'cause it could mean the difference between treating someone correctly or treating someone incorrectly.
In the business world, ambiguity is a little bit more of a sweet spot of where you can actually have some creativity and some innovation. I think- Yeah ... both experiences have brought different things to my skillset.
Helen Tanner: And as we fully wrap up, I just wanna highlight this. Laura is so impressive.
She is, an executive, she's a mom, she has a Substack. tell us... You have a podcast. Tell us what you want us to know, I guess, a little bit outside of Curology and your professional role, and how people can contact you and kind of what makes you excited for the future for you outside of work.
Or maybe it is all work. Absolutely. I'm
Laura Demuth: I'm very excited about work, but I also am really excited that we're even having this conversation because, when I joined Curology over 11 years ago, I had to basically, as I was recruiting the team, try to, pull teeth to get people to join and say, " This is real.
We can treat patients this way." And now the tables have turned, so it's really, really cool to see that different nontraditional alternative pathways, for clinicians exist, and that's the very reason why we're having the conversation today. So I think that is also what excites me. and I would say, just because I have to overcomplicate my life and do-
a million different things, there are other things besides my, more-than-full-time gig that I do. So you mentioned my Substack. I do a monthly, health tech clinician Substack newsletter, which was actually born out of, Curology unfortunately, a reduction in workforce on the clinical team, and it was born out of the idea of I just wanna help all my clinicians find other places where they can thrive that are not necessarily going back to clinic.
And that's kind of snowballed a bit into lots of different things, so we can link that as well. And then, I am a mom and I also have a podcast about motherhood and ambition- ... with my girlfriend Jen. It's called Mightiest of Mother. You can find it on Apple and Spotify, podcasts. And we do biweekly conversations on, anything from marriage to, mental health to physical health, anything impacting moms and women in the modern day.
And if anyone wants to get in contact with me, just find me on LinkedIn. send me a message, send me a connection request. I'm happy to connect there.
Helen Tanner: Yes. And if there is one thing, this world becomes really intertwined in the startup world, clinicians and startups especially. And, Laura is extremely generous with her time.
one of the most generous that I've, experienced thus far. And thank you for that, Laura.
Laura Demuth: And thank you. I appreciate it.
Helen Tanner: Yes. So anyway, thanks so much for this time and, thank you for listeners, and I look forward to talking with you in the next episode.
